Comments on: The Church On the Move (Part 1 – Holy Spirit)

By: This Week’s Links (August 2, 2009) | Withering Fig

This Week’s Links (August 2, 2009) | Withering Fig — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:44:21 +0000

[...] Charles Lee has begun posting about some sea changes or paradigm shifts that he is seeing in the church. Part one focuses on the Spirit. “The Church on the Move (Part 1)” [...]

By: Charles

Charles — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 05:48:48 +0000

Thanks for the note Dan. Well said!

By: Dan King

Dan King — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:48:28 +0000

I run in the charismatic circles that you speak of, and I am SO glad that you shared this! I think that this is something that has been on my heart for a while, and I also see the need for this sort of shift.

I can’t help but to think about what you started touching on when you referenced Acts 2. We actually see the same thing thoughout the book of Acts… anytime there was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, it is ALWAYS followed with the fact that there were many added to the church. I’ve seen many ‘outpourings’ where there is no such fruit, and that saddens me deeply.

I pray for a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit regularly, but also that it be in that ‘Acts’ way that produces the fruit that it was intended to produce.

By: Charles

Charles — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:06:24 +0000

Thanks Ty for emphasizing the importance love in this conversation!

Frank, thanks for sharing the story of your mother. I do believe that we need to highlight more of those kinds of stories in our churches. Love it.

By: Frank!

Frank! — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:44:56 +0000

Coming from a Pentecostal background, I agree: funkiness in the name of God is a huge turn off! It brings a disconnect between ordinary life and the “Christian ” life. To paraphrase what’s been said, it’s about taking it to the streets. I’ve been surprised that my mother is the person who truly sees this the most in her Christian life. She cleans homes, and yet has been able to connect with all sorts of people who are certainly above her socio-economic status, and has been able to share more with them than I have. As it was pointed out, the coming of the Spirit in Acts led to what many of us would call a “missional emphasis”. It was to reach out to the culturally different (as Prof. Sevillano would call them) so that the message could be presented (Peter’s first sermon). And then we see them in the community of the saints. (Of course I hope we can avoid the problem they all dealt with of staying in their closed circle for the next few years!).

By: Ty Austin

Ty Austin — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:37:10 +0000

Hmmm….. I love the Holy Spirit and what I am hearing from this conversation is GREAT! When we, “Spirit-Filled” people, look at the book of Acts trying to locate the current church in that context it is easy to get mis-guided. Acts is just the start. In fact, if you really want to see the reality of the Church, look at Paul’s writings. There it is easier to find yourself. We find teaching, guidance, and even correction as Paul navigates the early years of the Church. It shows that even they needed course corrections.

Something that Paul continually brought up is what I believe has been lost in most Charismatic circles, LOVE. So, when Charles brings up the why, I believe that is what Paul kept trying to bring the Church back to. LOVE. Plain, simple, unconditional, 1 Corinthians 13 LOVE.

Why the Holy Spirit? Why the gifts of the Spirit? Why the ministries that reach outside Church walls? Why? I believe it is simple, but yet lost in our hectic, entertainment centered churches. It is:

God LOVES people.

By: Charles

Charles — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:40:03 +0000

Thanks Bo for the note…I’m glad to hear that this post is opening up different ways for you to think about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. I was telling a friend recently that I feel like I’m using the same words as 10 years ago about the Holy Spirit but mean totally different things.

Good thoughts Chris…you have so many variables in your youth ministry that it will be hard to put really see what’s going on. I think it’s so important to place young people (as a matter of fact, even adults) in environments where they will need to trust God and his presence. I’m glad to hear you working through this.

By: Chris Ametrano

Chris Ametrano — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:25:07 +0000

Charles I am glad I was able to read this blog. In a simliar conversation, I was thinking outloud about the passive church model a lot of churches have adopted, specifically in context of our youth groups. Not in the spirit of negativity, but in honest reflection, it is hard to see a generation of youth lost when they graduate from high school and “lock up” there faith in college.

What works with the passive church model is that it brings a structure and consistency a lot of people need. I have also found it is hard to integrate what is taught in service into a living breathing tangible faith when it’s practice is primarily in four walls.

Again, I am not deminishing the profit of our services or advocating the end of them. I am seeing more and more youth wanting to embrace the mission of God, and quite frankly that’s what’s going to keep them coming back because the compartmentalization of the Holy Spirit won’t be confined to a service, camp, or outreach.

I think if the church focuses on “seeing heaven” now, we will see the Holy Spirit move in ways He hasn’t before, and we see with our own eyes the fruition of the Kingdom being manifested on earth. I am looking forward to the creativity and change that will come from this current and evolving shift.

By: Bo Flores

Bo Flores — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:57:49 +0000

Great blog, Charles. I have been to far too many summer camps and retreats where the Holy Spirit is presented as a means to speak in tongues, something that verifies your being filled with the Spirit. I have to wonder to myself: is this the end goal? It is often stated that the Holy Spirit fills us with power for “daily Christian service,” but on the “Holy Spirit Night” of camp, how often is this practical action portion actually presented to others? It’s a new thought for me to view the acts of the Holy Spirit in my life in the terms of the list you presented, but it is a comforting and exciting thing to consider. I have been filled with the Spirit since I was 10, yet only in recent years have I began to consider that Holy Spirit means more to my life than signs and wonders seen at camp and in specialized services. I connect with and love your statement that the Holy Spirit shows up “through the way I serve and love people.” Thanks Charles!

By: Charles

Charles — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:41:44 +0000

Thanks Dan for the note. I love your honest assessment of what may be brewing. Honestly, I don’t think most of us really know what’s going on. I just love the fact that we can still work on our postures towards God.